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 In the name of God the Beneficent the Merciful

Malik Sahaib




       Thanks for your comments.  We consider all Kalama Reciter Muslim till someone diverts from the basic principle of Islam.  As it is well known fact that Ahmadees school of thought differs from all others Muslims sects on the concept of “ Khatmey Nabuawt”  but yet I or somebody else or any govt. Institution don’t have this authority to declare someone non Muslim. You referred  Maj. Rizvi repeatedly in your last two mail so let me clear that Maj. Rizvi is not an Alem or Mujtahid and has no authority in making decision about any issue of Islam so his comments are just his personal thinking and nothing else.


“ Kaul Ghairey  Mujtahid fideen Misley Buel Asst.”


      So far I know our Mujtahedeen are silent about Ahmadees point of view because they only give Fatwa about any issue when the matter is forwarded to them with concerning literature and after studying the concerning point of view they give their decision and I think that no such issue is forwarded to them for their decision.


     Your point of view that Shia present miseries are the result of law of nature as they turn a side on the killing of Ahmadees in the past. Let me tell you that in Islam you are asked to stop the hands of botchers if you have the power to do so, if you don’t have sufficient power to stop the Boucher  then your responsibility is not to add to Boucher, and hate their act of cruelty , and hate them from the core of your heart. A movement against Ahmadees was forcibly launched by Sunni majority and it was not possible for a Shia minority to stop their hands. You can see that in the last few years valance against Shia’t which resulted a heavy loss of Shia’t but yet we could not stop this valance and we could not retaliate in a way they do. Even we did not call them Kafir in retaliation what to talk about armed retaliation because our Ulma and specially the Tehreek-e-Jaferria did not allow and encourage Shia people to do so. If any one individual or a group retaliated they did so at their own and they were nether supported not backed by Ulama.


     Now if you deeply study the valances against Ahmadees in the past you will not find Shia majority and their Ulama on the roads and definitely they were not in position to stop the movement so they kept a side 

Shia’t calamities  are not only of these past few years   which you consider the result of   law of nature, but Shia’t , their A’Emmia and Ulama have been facing such calamities since  the death of Holy Prophet   (p.b.u.h.& h.p ) till to the present age. There is very long history of Zulm and Mazloomiat. We were cut, our houses were burnt, our A-Emma were slaughtered or poisoned our Ulam were hanged the blood of our youth and the children was shed by Ummedees, Abbasees, Usmanees and Mughals etc. because we never bowed and accepted the Tagoot as a successors of Holy Prophet and we did not give the fate of Islam in their hands where the whole Ummah was bowing to them and were accepting them the caliphs of Islam. We only riley  on the A’Emmia of Ahllal Bait of Holy Prophet so the calamites rushed toward us to whom we accepted to face , so our calamities are due to our principles which we adopted  and not due to the result of any law of nature, we have been under the calamities when even the Ahmadiat was far away from her birth.


      You might be knowing that during the valance in 1974 majority adopted the social boycott of Ahmadees  but all Shia Ulama strongly opposed the social boycott and declared it an un-Islamic act. They referred it like an act of Quraesh against the Holy Prophet when the Holy Prophet with all Bani Hashem was forced to live an isolated in Sheb-e-AbuTalib for three years , so act of boycott was condemned by Shia Ulama. You can estimate that when Shis Ulma condemned the act of social boycott how can they   support the killing of Ahmadees but as I told you that our voice was week against  the majority slow gun.


     History clearly tell us that always in the history the noble people remained oppressed by the devils of the history.  The calamites of nobles were always due to their principles and not at all due to any law of nature.


       Shia Majority supported Mr. Bhutto politically only because in the light of past history they knew that if the fanatic and prejudice Sunni Muftees come in power the calamities of Shia  Millat will increase. Therefore a neutral person like Bhutto was more acceptable to them then those Muftees. You can see that during the dark time of Gen. Zia  the calamities of Shia’t increased only because there were again Sunni Muftees on his back.


There is no drought that we being Shia do not accept the Ahmediat point of view regarding the  Khatmey Nabuawt  but yet we do not support any violence against anyone  and declaring any one Kafir is not the job of public or any govt. institution but it could only be decided by Mujtahideen who have authority to give Fatwa about any issue concerning Islam




For Alhujat.

Alhujat --- A call to Human conscience ! ! !

>From: "Malik M. A. Majoka"

>To: alhujat tripod

Subject: Re: Kafir Hai Jo Mussalman ko kehta hai Kafir


>Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:15:28 +0400

Dear Sirs,


>Thanks for further clarifying your position on the matter of "Takfeer". In fact this is the only practical solution and basis to any civilised co-existence between the communities with divergent views. So, I presume now from your writing that you consider all "Kalema-Reciters" as muslims, and that includes Ahmadees. I also presume that that is the version accepted by the mujtahideen of Shiee community, as well.




>CLARIFICATION: You have mis-understood from my communication that the unfortunate killings of Shiee notables and common people was done or could have been done by Ahmadees. Not at all. To the contrary, it is a part of Ahmadee creed not to retaliate with violence to any provocation. Firstly, because it is the party which feels weak in logic that resorts to violence. Secondly, because we have a 'living faith' in an 'Alive God'. So, our cases are in His court and to Him we appeal at the time of misery and repression. Hence, a lot of un-reported killing of Ahmadees was done, mostly in Gen. Zia's time. One Advocate Gen. of Punjab, Gillani by name, openly declared (reported in news!) that no permission was needed to kill Ahmadees and nothing was to be feared in this matter. As a result,most cases went un-registered or un-detected as if it was slaughter of animals and not the slaughter of citizens of a country. It started with killing of a doctor in Nawab Shah, followed by buthcery of another Eye-specialist in Hyder Abad and then a great number of such killings. The details are available with Amnesty Int'l and other organisations. However, soon the tirade of killings and violence turned to sectarian and ethnic feuds. It was a logical result of targeting Ahmadees. One, because there is a natural justice that goes on and two, because once the Ginnie of violence and intolerance is out of the bottle, it is not possible to return it there! If you turn your face away when an innocent child is being slaughtered in your street, because he belongs to another sect, it is only a matter of time that your child will face the same situation. There is no escape from this law of nature. This is what I was referring to when I said that a lot of unfortunate killings of Shiees took place in the last many years. It was a direct result of letting the ginnie out of bottle! The quotation of Major (later brig. and now probably living in Sharjah) Rizvi showed a total ignorance of the laws of nature (and religion!) and a very short-sighted attitude. So was it a surprise that the crop of intolerance had to be reaped in time?


>As for Shiees not supporting 1974 resolution against Ahmadees, frankly I don't remember a single dissenting voice in those days. In fact a lot of re-joicing was done by all over this 'unanimous decision'. Also, there was a lot of talk of 72 sects getting together on one issue, at least. But your assertion that Shiee Mujtahideen did not approve of this resolution is appreciable.


>If the aim of persecution of Shiees in Pakistan really was 'weekening the Islamic Revolution in Iran', Idon't know. What is certain is that it weekened Pakistan to such an alarming degree that it came to near-annihilation. It is only a miracle that a leadership was given to it by God and conditions were created which just managed to pull it back from the brink. And thank God for that. And there again, all enlightened people will agree that the the 'point of rescue' has been ridding the country of violence and intolerance of different sects. This un-fortunate phenomenon had all but destruyed our beloved homeland.




>All the well-wishers of Pakistan must understand that the only way to strengthen this country is to create atmosphere of tolerance and mutual respect. Why go to the extent of hurting other's sentiment? That is neither civilised behaviour nor the teaching of any religion / sect. nor a course to progress and prosperity.




>So, should we say that the banner in your site : " Kafir hai jo Mussalman ko kehta hai kafir" is universal, for everybody and from every body, or it has some exceptions? If it is universal, it can form a very good basis of a civilized society in any Muslim country, if not, it will weaken the Muslims more and more.


>Thanks for opportunity to have a dialogue with you and best regards.






>-- Original Message -----


> From: alhujat tripod


> To:


> Cc:


> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:51 PM


> Subject: Re: Kafir Hai Jo Mussalman ko kehta hai Kafir






> Dear Malik Sahib




> Salam




> Thanks for your kind response. Your analysis is quite valuable but I would like to clear our Shi'ee point of view.




> We Shia as whole and particularly our responsible Ulama are always against this concept that to call any sect of Islam Kafir. To say anyone kafir who is saying " La Ellaha Ellalla " is totally wrong and against the teaching of Holy Prophet. So being a lot of differences with Ismailees and Bohras on a shia base we never called them Kafir and our Ulama never in the history have lunched any protest against them. You may be astonished to know that even to Yazeed being the worst enemy of whole prophet and his progeny we never called him Kafir as well.




> Now if you recall the history you may remember that in a protest against Ahmadees in 1973 or in 1953 and even before the responsible Ulma-e-Shi'ee specially the Mujtahedeen who are the actual authority of Fatwa never took part in such movements. But on the other hand the Ulma-e-Ahle Sunnah have the habit to declare quickly his opponents Kafir and to launch the movement against them. I tell you ( you may not be knowing ) the Ulma-e-Ahle Sunnah don't have the authority to issue Fatwa because there exist no Mujtahed among them . As per Sunni school of thought after their four A-Emma they closed the door of Ejtahad and declared Ejtahad haram for Ummah, after that, principally no Mutahid could be produced in Ahle-Sunnah so as the Mujtahid is the only authority for Fatwa so no one has the authority to issue Fatwa if someone do so he is doing against his religious basic principle but in spite of this admitted fact they are very fast in issuing fatwa against their opponents. In shia scho




> Now commenting on the step of Bhutto; In the time of Bhutto the parliament declared the Ahmedees as Kafir as early I told that Fatwa authority is only with Mujtahid and no one , may be president or prime Minster or parliament has authority to declare anyone as Kafir.( Totally against Islam ) so due to this un-Islamic practice Ulama-e-Shia never took part in this movement and remained silent. Openly they did not oppose this movement for the reason that the huge and illiterate majority may have turned against them and may have declared them the supporter of Ahmadees. Bhutto himself was not in a favor of declaring them Kafir he was having no concern of it. But he was forced to do so by Sunni majority who was on the roads with their Ulma.




> Now coming to your third point that due to Ahmadees Shia met the misery I think it is not true although the Ahmadees are not our friends nor we are their supporter but still there is an other factor responsible for our miseries. If you look back on the protest against Ahmadees as I have also explained the Sunni majority and their Ulma were more on front then Shia so if Ahmadees are to take the revenge they are supposed to take revenge from Sunni Ulma but the situation is quite different. In compare to Sunni Ulma and public the Shia Ulma and the people were made more target of this misery . We see a lot of Shia Ulma , Schalars, Doctors students and many other are killed by declared Wahabi Tanzeem Sepah-e-Sahaba. They themselves have admitted on many occasions officially and publicly that they are killing Shia's to earn the Jannah. ( Recently the president himself in his speech to the nation on TV. said that one Imam-e-Masjid of this Tanzeem is caught who killed 40 people ( all Shia ) and he is




> Kafir Kafir Sunni Kafir are any one among the Shia Public would have written on the wall this slow gun where every where Shis Kafir was written on the walls.




> We are killed. our property and houses were burnt we were openly called Kafir but yet we did not called them Kafir. So this Tenzeem was not based by Ahmadees but was planted by some external power with the help of Gen. Zia in his black era. and ISI of that time was on their back and the aim was to weakened and crush the Shia't in Pakistan. The aim was altimetry to weaken the Islamic Revolution of Iran ( as I cannot go much details of it now )




> With the falling of power in the hands of Taleban with the full support of ISI much more strengthen the hands of Sepah-e-Sahaba. Trained Commandoes were provided to them from Afghanistan about it once Nawaz Shareef during his time openly said on TV. So one can see that in a very short time our Ulma, Doctors Scholars, Students and many prominent people were wiped off and their target was to crush the shia't as a whole in Pakistan. But Allah helped the Mazloomeen and the situation changed all of sudden. On the basis of this Dua




> " Allahhuma Radul Asrar Bil Asrar " they were declared terrorist by an other terrorist power and were crushed with their masters.




> Insha Allah we all hope for good change in Pakistan We pray that Allah may help this present government to establish peace in Pakistan and let not these terrorist may get the power again.




> w/salam




> For Alhujat.










> Alhujat --- A call to Human conscience ! ! !




> >From: "Malik M. A. Majoka"


> >To: alhujat tripod


> >Subject: Re: Kafir Hai Jo Mussalman ko kehta hai Kafir


> >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:55:12 +0400


> >


> >Dear Sirs,


> >AoA.


> >Thanks for your prompt and frank reply. I understand your point of view better now. My question was not asked with an idea of Sheiis supporting Ahmadya school of thought. (Hasbonallah wa naemul wakeel) Looking at the 'banner' flashing in your site, I misunderstood. As this statement derives its strength from the Hadeeth : Whoever calls his muslim brother a non-muslim, the kufr returns back on him, I thought you have a broader approach in this matter. Now I understand that what you mean is only: Sheiis are the only muslims and whosoever calls them non-muslims, becomes a kafir himself. Am I right, Sir?


> >The other reason for my asking the question was a series of thought spread over more than a quarter century. I remember in July/August 1974, a colleague of mine, Major (later Brig. ) Rizvi, very forcefully advocating that Ahmadis be declared 'minority'. I asked him what he meant by 'minority' ? Non-muslims? He did not say so but he meant it. So I told him that no National Assembly on earth had a right to decide upon the faith of a person or community. Because if this principal was accepted, then next, all sunnies who are in majority in Pakistan would like to declare Sheiis as non-muslim and so on. The Sheiis, unfortunately, did not understand this point that they were making a fatal mistake by supporting Bhutto's un-ethical move in the 1974, against Ahmadis. The result? After Ahmadis, the tirade of the public turned against Sheiis and 26 years later I find that as a community,they are a major victim of religious intolerance. I find a large number of Sheii notable friends (doctors and advocate


> >My opinion is that Islam is a large pale which can and does accomodate difference of opinion -- from Ismailies to Zikries. We should cooperate in the matters of righteousness and the matters concerning the whole Ummah and leave the matter of belief to Allah.To try to throw someone out of this pale is weakening Islam, politically. We should not do that. Also it means spreading intolerance. So whoever will be in majority at a given place and time, shall be justified to throw all others out of this pale. That is obviously wrong. The fact that Allah Himself has tolerated all these schools of thought since so long, shows that we need to tolerate the difference of opinion as well. On the day of Judgement, in which we all believe, the truth of belief shall be quite clear. Till then we should avoid branding others as non-muslims, so that we do not come under the warning of the saying of Holy Prophet that the Kufr returns back upon the initiator.


> >Wassalam. with kind regards,


> >Malik


> > ----- Original Message -----


> > From: alhujat tripod


> > To:


> > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:51 PM


> > Subject: Re: Kafir Hai Jo Mussalman ko kehta hai Kafir


> >


> >


> > Dear Malik Sahib


> >


> > Salam


> >


> > Sir kindly you deeply visit alhujat does it support Ahmedees school of thought ????????


> >


> > not at all.


> >


> > W/Salam


> >


> > For alhujat.


> >


> >


> >


> >


> >


> >


> > Alhujat --- A call to Human conscience ! ! !


> > >From: "Malik M. A. Majoka"


> > >To:


> > >Subject: Kafir Hai Jo Mussalman ko kehta hai Kafir


> > >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:10:32 +0400


> > >


> > >Dear Sirs,


> > >The large banner displayed in your site in Urdu with the above caption, makes me ask you if you also subscribe to the 'majority' declaring Ahmadis as non-muslim?


> > >Best regards,


> > >Malik.


> > >Malik Mubashir Ahmad Majoka


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